Harry Turner 0:05
Welcome seekers of truth to another season of "Is That Soo?" Here we embark on the journey together a quest not just for answers, for the right questions that lead us to the core of who we are. Season Four unfolds with many insights and revelations that challenge us to peel away the facades and meet our authentic selves. Let's be illuminated, transformed, and indeed become lit. The knowledge of our true selves welcome outlier.
Harry Turner 0:37
want all my people on the show via for a second to get in the mood. If you gotta get yourself ranked, get yourself a drink real quick. Because it's gonna be a hot one, you're gonna sit down also grab your notebook and your sheet of paper.
Harry Turner 1:04
So let me just talk about my guests introduce my guest. While this is flowing away, it's flowing. I have a very special guest coming on today. Dr. Richie Hall, the second who is a licensed psychologist and owner of site works plant in a health private practice with offices in Cincinnati, and answered and oh, excuse me, in Cincinnati, Oxford in Oxford, Ohio. Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is right there. I'm trying to combine those two into one. Office is as plural. Another has offices in Cincinnati in Oxford, Ohio. Okay, so he has his reach is going out there. I gotta stop the music because this is serious. He got some some pretty stellar accomplishments. Yeah. All right. Dr. Hall previously worked for eight years as the coordinator of substance abuse services for the Miami University Student Counseling Service. Hold on a second. I heard Ohio. Wait a second. Wait a second. Hold on y'all. Ohio, Cincinnati. I wait. Cincinnati and Oxford, Ohio. Okay. Okay. Those are two places. And I'm here in Miami University. Okay, I'm putting these things together with y'all. All right. So he has previously previously worked for eight years as the coordinator of substance abuse services for the Miami University Student Counseling Service. All right, a graduate of the University of Cincinnati. His clinical approach is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy and motivational interviewing through a systems theory lens, not as deep. I'm a love to flow and this right here because he's this right here is all of my interest as well. So we share there's a lot of synchronicity there. All right. Dr. Hall is the current president of the Cincinnati Association of Black Psychologists and has appeared several times on Cincinnati's local child twills Good morning Cincinnati I'm imagine them saying it like that. I'm here in Louisiana so I don't know if they say it like that. But good morning Cincinnati. program for his ask Dr. Hall segment. Whoa, he has a whole segment. I don't even know. I was I was already talking to you know, somebody that was like on a slick as a star out there. All right. I'm gonna ask him if he got something on Hollywood already. And Dr. Hall also has a podcast about psychology cold Psych. psychologize. You Oh, yeah. psychologize you that's one of the things I'm doing right now. That's one of the things my my wife is quick to say to me, don't come up here and try to theorize me. I can't help that this is how my brain operates. But, like the whole so getting back to that, like a whole also, it's a podcast about psychology called psychologize you where he and guests work to educate, inform and reduce the stigma around mental health topics. Yes, there's still a stigma around mental health topics and I'm not gonna go deep into that. But just know that ignorance and freedom can't coexist. Ignorance and freedom cannot coexist. Knowledge is power and knowledge itself as power moved from the passion to seat to the driver's seat of your destiny. So you know, the stigma around mental health. This is just part of the natural evolution of who we are, you know, and by who we owe, I truly believe sincerely my personal belief is that we are going back to essence to who we've always been. That's why I include the spiritual with my, the mental. I noticed I flow at this point, those of you who followed me you'll notice our flow from the mental, the scientific to the spiritual, and I go back and forth like that, because I see this evolution in us as well. And I believe that had the mental health, mental health come to the forefront, I believe somewhere around the 1940s whatnot. With this coming to the forefront, I believe this represents the natural evolution of humans, just like the autonomic nervous system, that free state evolved in humans 500 million years ago, that fight or flight state 400 million years ago, according to polyvagal theory, and then that social gathering that connected in its state, the stet, the story of connection that evolved 200 million years ago, allowing us to be who we are now, these large societies and USA, yay, you know, like this natural physical evolution. But the physical is a representation of spiritual truths. And so I go back and forth between the two. Now that's enough. That's my whole spiel that I give y'all. I'm not wasting any time because I got questions for this, brother. So without further ado, I'm welcoming to the stage, Dr. Richie Hall, the second with multiple offices, who also does some stuff in Miami as well. Welcome to the SID Welcome to the
Dr. Ritch Hall II 6:06
Yes, yes. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I appreciate being here.
Harry Turner 6:10
Thanks for being hand. Yeah, but did I get anything wrong? No,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 6:16
no, you got it. So often, when people hear Miami, they think Miami, Florida, but I've worked at Miami of Ohio. So in Oxford, Ohio, is Miami University. It's one of those jokes that when people you know, they think they're going to Miami, they think they're going to Florida but in reality here in the Midwest, there's Oh,
Harry Turner 6:34
man, I would I would advocate for them changing that name, Miami.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 6:39
They were the first Miami so they're very, very, very adamant. That Miami, Ohio.
Harry Turner 6:49
Oh, my goodness, we were first. Welcome to the to the set, man. Welcome to the set that I get any accolades off? Like no, no, you
Dr. Ritch Hall II 6:57
got it. You got it. You said everything. Okay.
Harry Turner 7:00
Good deal. And anything you wanted to add? No,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 7:03
it's always weird when people say the stuff I've done. You know, it's like when you're when you're making the CV when you go through all the trouble of putting doing the things that go on the CV. It's just, it's just a bunch of work. And then you look back, you're like, oh, actually, I've done some things. It's, I've accomplished a few things here or there.
Harry Turner 7:19
Yes, you have. Yes, you have. And they were to be acknowledged, of course, man, because there's a lot of just been Frank, a lot of brothers don't make it to that stage. You know? Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm happy to see more and more black men specifically getting undergraduate degrees. Even though I know that comes with the burden of your oftentimes taking out student loans in of itself. A double edged sword the US with advanced degrees, especially two level doctorate, very rare, very rare. So yeah, man. Yes. be acknowledged.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 7:52
Absolutely. Dr. reco, Martin did something where she tried to essentially calculate how many of us there are. And I think the number is really around like 1400. Like, there's not that many black people with PhDs in psychology, where you can get us all in a stadium for a pretty low cost, if you want it is what I remember walk away from that conversation thinking.
Harry Turner 8:13
Oh, man, yeah, that is actually less than the number of one of my classes at LSU. Louisiana State University. Yeah, jazz my jazz class. I think that was up to like, 1900 of us all in the same engine. You know, so that was like, ridiculous. Right? You know, but but a number at that point, you know, not even that really. But anyway, yeah. 1400. Man, that's crazy. Right?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 8:36
Right. It's a little crazy, but it also shows how rare we are in any field, let alone in this field. You know, it's not a lot of black men that have postgraduate degrees and or PhDs. I mean, it's the process isn't quite made for us. And, you know, there's a lot of barriers that you got to overcome that I definitely I can I can, I can tell you stories, man.
Harry Turner 8:59
And I'm gonna have to invite you on for those stories as well. Sure, but absolutely. But today, as I take a look at my questions, yeah, we have some great questions. And so you know, you you, you brought up the topic of mental men's mental health and anxiety. And so my very first question for you is, in your professional journey, Dr. Hall, what has drawn you specifically towards focusing on men's mental health and anxiety.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 9:27
Ultimately, the fact that there are so few of us out there that can come from this lens. And there are so few I remember, in my own experiences, seeking therapy, and sitting across from someone who did not look like me, and was a decent therapist. She was fine. It's just there were some aspects of the male experience that I had to explain to this person, and that they were pretty much immediately pathologized and it's like, well, that doesn't that isn't what makes me bad. He didn't mean like, like, this is just, this is just the one way the world is shaped for a person like me. And so how can you not stigmatize these aspects of culture and identity, particularly as a black man, while allowing some like, Okay, some of the stuff may need to be shaved down here and there. But just because you're coming from this perspective doesn't mean you're wrong. And that there are aspects of the perspective of being a man and a black man that you'd have, like, I spent most of my life sorting through those things. How do I help other men sort through those things without immediately thinking there's something wrong with them?
Harry Turner 10:33
Yes, yes, he was gonna take me off script now. Yes, the in being a therapist, you know, and I encourage open expression. And the bulk of my clients are Caucasian brothers and sisters. And my, my, my brothers and sisters of color, I have consistent clients, you know, one of my most consistent clients, if not the most consistent is actually an African American male, or so. But I noticed that when I speak, going to what you were saying earlier, about the experience, like the experience of speaking to clients of color, versus, you know, all Caucasian brothers and sisters, it's like, you know, some things, they'll bring up, not all of them, some of them, you know, a lot of my clients are very conscious. But like, for example, something would be brought up to me like, you know, where they mentioned something about a black man being racist. And I'm like, stay remain curious. Harry.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 11:35
Stay present. Stay present. Yes, yes. Yes.
Harry Turner 11:37
Stay centered, remain curious. You are therapists, you're not even a black man right now. You
Dr. Ritch Hall II 11:42
are no, no, no, you are not. Right now. You are You are one specific identity, you are not those other identities. That is not what they're paying you for. Right. So they have the chair, or the chair? Yes.
Harry Turner 11:55
And so in getting, you know, as far as black men is concerned, and mastery for question, this is something I noticed one of my, well, a couple of my most consistent clients are actually black men, as well as white women. It's like a toss between those two, you know, notice that the black men, and some of my sisters, but it's more common among black men, a lot of my brothers that the consistency component, like they are also the I found in my practice, have the highest probability of being inconsistent. Hmm. You know, and, and I'm really, you know, because I'm gonna say things that again, I'm gonna be talking. Understand what I'm saying what I'm saying. And so, you know, I bring this up, so that they could reflect on and, you know, but what do you think it contributes? to that? I know, I'm asking, you know, yeah, we don't have exactly have scientific studies on this. But yeah,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 12:57
yeah, I mean, a lot of times, it's, it's, it's prioritizing, right, this thing called therapy. You know, there are some populations for whom this is not normal. This is weird. I often say that, particularly about my black male clients, particularly my black male team, every parent wants me to sit down and talk with their teens. And that's often a struggle for me, because when do black male teens have an adult man sit and listen to them for an hour, like they do not have that frame of reference. And so their parents are like, it'd be great if you steer my kid in a better direction. And it's like, and I'm, I'm for it. It's part of my mission. But I also understand it's an uphill climb, because there's a kid who's going to sit across from me with no, it's gonna take months for him to even be able to trust that I'm real, that I'm actually here to listen, or that there's a value to what we're doing. You know, some of my best experiences have been with young black men who figure it out. But it takes so long to get there sometimes. And you know, the parents like, well, I'm paying you all this money and nothing's changing. And it's like, yeah, he doesn't even believe I, I'm a real thing in his life. Yet. Once we get over that hump, we're golden. And there are some of those some of those kids I've worked with for at this point years. But to get there is so hard. And very often the parents are calling me when the thing is happening, right, some crisis has popped off, and they need help today, they do need help now. And very often when people go to therapy, it's because something happened today, right? Men go to therapy because someone in a woman in their life said if you don't change, things don't change. But then maybe it gets better. Maybe she stops nagging, maybe you know, we just break up. And so I wanted to do this therapy thing. I was real committed week one, but, you know, seven, seven weeks from now, I might just get that appointment. I might just get the next three because I won't even feel it today. Or I got an internal anxiety about it right? I don't even know how I'm gonna sit across from a person and tell them what I'm really doing. So what am I just, you know, be a little a little late and that turns to not showing up at all, which turns into, you know, a couple of months since I've talked about therapist, like it takes a certain You know, commitment, and
Harry Turner 15:01
also the mad this perspective and that to the trauma, the collective trauma that black men carry. And so in those forms, I know you've got them in yours too. There's a there's a not so much a warning, but there's an understanding, you know, we consent to treatment that things oftentimes seem to get worse before they get better. Oh, yeah, he's gonna feel weird. Yeah. When we start dealing with those traumas, and those trauma leaves, you know, and they're like, Wait a second. I'm not. I feel more emotional, right? I'm dreaming again. Hold on. No, no, no, I did a great job all this time. For so long. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I would rather be numb than to be like,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 15:43
I do not want to be that. I wouldn't want to be that. Yeah, and that's, that's often the challenge. And it's very unfortunate, because, you know, we know that doing this work comes with so much reward when you get to that place of being more healed than you were when you started. But that road is rough. And so I've learned, you know, there, you know, you've done therapy yourself, you'll have those clients. So it's like, I see the work we can do. And I see the value that this can bring to your life. And then they just start drifting away. And you're like, No, no, no, no, please stay like, Come back. Come back. We're doing great things. It can be we had the best session ever. And the next week, crickets, where'd you go, I thought we really got to build on some stuff. And sometimes it's the you know, for them, this is better enough, sometimes I don't want to go to that place, again, where you took me, you know, and so that's why I really value the men that I work with that do commit and do show up week after week. And give it a shot. And and try. And I don't I don't fault them for giving it a try and then walk away for a while either like I I'm not I'm not everybody's perfect therapists. So if you've got to go out there and try someone else, or just step away from it for a while, I totally get that. Just, I'm always here if you need me is kind of my I tend to operate from a very open door, you want to come back and have another conversation a year from now, I wish you to come a little earlier. But let's let's start here.
Harry Turner 17:06
I legit man because, uh, you know, just the experience of being a therapist, you know, of course, like it resonates with me as you're talking about this. But I legit in my intake. It almost sounds like I'm trying to convince a person not to sign up with me. I'm essentially saying, Hey, I understand like the brain the most, the factor that will help you heal the most is this client fit. So for yourself? I'm not a fit. Please go find someone else. Right. I'm sure my feelings won't be hurt. Maybe there'll be but no, it won't be hurt.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 17:42
At that personal. Okay, another person is coming through the door, though. So I don't have time to dwell on. Exactly.
Harry Turner 17:51
Exactly, exactly. And sale. But everything is speaking. Okay. Let me get back to this. Man, man, man. This is good. This is so good. Okay. Could you share? Oh, you've already answered this. But I'm still gonna broach the question. Since I have it here. I just gave you something else. Could you share some common misconceptions about men's mental health? And how these misconceptions may hinder men from seeking help?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 18:16
Yeah, so many. So I mean, first, it doesn't help. Right? This isn't going to help. This is stupid. It's just talking about feelings. What does that help, I'm going to so many men that I work with, are afraid of losing control. Like we said before, like they've had to suppress emotions for so long, or just ignore them, or it just isn't a factor, that the idea of letting anything out of the bottle means it's all going to spill. And I see that so often just this fear of I will completely lose it if I let go of any of this. And that's always fascinating to work with. Then there's the the misconception on the on the X the extra misconception. Like I said, a lot of times a woman in their life is sitting down to therapy, and it's like, well, he's gonna change and then I don't have to change. I see that a lot when working with men if you create a lot more disruption in your relationships to now talk about your feelings out loud with your partner when this relationship was built on your stoicism, right? So now we got a lot more stuff on the table than we ever have before. Because now you're saying things you've been suppressing for a while. She's like, Where'd all this come from? And he's like, Oh, you wanted him to talk? Right? Like that was what you asked. So sometimes the misconception is, oh, this is just going to make everything easier. No, it's this could possibly make things harder. It could possibly unearth things that have been happening in the relationship that had not been discussed. It's going to it's going to unravel some stuff. And that that unraveling does not have to mean a complete nor loss of control. That's what that's what I have to often remind people because it it, it hinders people it stops them from taking the leap. Yeah,
Harry Turner 19:44
yeah, man, you you. Yes. Okay, I'm just gonna continue moving forward. So, focusing on anxiety for a second. Anxiety often goes unrecognized or undiscussed among men. How can men and those around them better identify the signs of anxiety? Hmm,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 20:05
I think you know, anxiety is something that every creature great and small experiences, right? Like it's our alert system that helps us to navigate the world, which I say is full of dangers, right? If you're a Game of Thrones fan tonight is dark and full of tears, like there's always something out there that could get you if you let it. And we need a system to navigate that stress and be able to effectively determine what's real, and what's not a threat, and anxiety of that. So that feeling of something might be wrong. And that can be allowed feeling for someone, that could be a soft feeling, because I've been ignoring it most of my life or because I've experienced trauma. So I learned to turn that noise all the way down. So it doesn't disrupt me. But it's that disrupted, edgy feeling that creeps in whenever there is a potential for danger or threat. Sometimes it's hyper vigilant, you know, there's a lot of men who, you know, I can't sit with my back to the door, because that means the threat could be coming right? There is I can't be in a crowd of people, because I don't know these people. And I start to get real anxious and real worried around a bunch of people? I don't know. Right? So it manifests in a lot of different behavior ways, a lot of different internal ways. You know, physically, it could be the rapid heartbeat, it could be sweaty palms, it can be, you know, dry mouth, but it's that it's the physical cues that say something is wrong. It's the mental, you know, overvaluation, the mental vigilance, and then the, the emotional just sort of dysregulation that is, I'm not sure. I don't know, I'm insecure. And, you know, men often have been taught, I mean, as a society, we kind of needed men to jump in the foxhole, right? Like we needed them. To go into the mines, we needed them to not be anxious. And so boys were very young age are taught to not listen to that voice. And in order to suppress that voice, or to not let that boys rule them in, in that regard. I think sometimes we do a disservice particularly as we're transitioning to this different society where that isn't that we don't need some men to do that. But there's a lot of men who we no longer need to be that type of aggressive alpha male type. men end up not knowing how to understand those signals that come from the body, and that those signals from the emotions that say, something might be wrong, I need to listen to my body into my mind when these moments are happening. And I'm getting disrupted.
Harry Turner 22:17
Plus, especially if women aren't telling us to do
Dr. Ritch Hall II 22:20
it. Hmm, yes, yeah.
Harry Turner 22:24
I noticed that usually, the catalyst for these major changes shifts, usually a Dibley women saying, I'm gonna need us on this, yeah, I'm gonna need
Dr. Ritch Hall II 22:35
if you don't change something about change.
Harry Turner 22:40
So, you know, imagine that, and that's why I'm so happy for a lot of women of color, come into therapy and embracing mental health the way that they have, because they're growing, they're healing. And then they could be the ones in the home with that, that relationship with that man, to say, hey, take a second and drop down in your body. Yeah. How you feeling like, you know, they've clearly been to therapy, they've been going to therapy for some years now. So they learn the techniques, and they can skillfully center themselves first. And then they're able to extend that that regulation, that CO regulation, you know, and can you drop down in your body? Right, you know, what are you feeling? You're really stressed right now, like, hyper vigilant, right? Like, you know, feel your heart rate, you know?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 23:27
Right, right. Right. When it's working, it's those moments where in a relationship, the partner could say, Wait, you seem to be triggered by something, that ain't what I just said, right? And so then they can ask their partner what's really going on and give them space? Well, if you're already talking about it, now, we can talk about later, right? Whatever reaction happens doesn't have to be, you know, what's really on the table. And when a relationship is working well, and they have both people have like a healthy sense of self, they can get through those moments without a turn it into, you know, full on fireworks. But unfortunately, in some of those relationships, you know, like I said, sometimes there's an imbalance, one person's been to therapy, the other person and going, and if they don't learn some of those skills, it's gonna be hard to drag that person through the trials of life when they are unable to regulate those emotions. Man,
Harry Turner 24:11
if you know, talking about things changing, just real quick relationships. You know, I thought that I would do a little bit of relationship counseling early on. I learned very quickly. Now I tell people and have been for years, come to me when you're ready to break up because that's what's gonna happen. Because when I see you go on to the left, and I see you go into the right, how can two walk together when they go in a different direction? So I just need some acceptance is first step for me. And when the index evidence part usually results in?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 24:47
Maybe not this. Yeah,
Harry Turner 24:49
yeah, I've been attached to the familiar into the same. Now it's time for me to take more risk. You know, just in alignment, you know that that was the Vision, you know,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 25:02
no hard conversation. The heart. Yeah,
Harry Turner 25:05
man, it's yes, yes. And then we could regulate ourselves. We could we could experience these relationships don't have to end and this permanent abandonment of the relationship, like these relationships can still take a different form and remain healthy. Yeah, of course, you know, different levels of of interaction based off of that. But if we were all healed, and spoke from edge to space, such thing as we it would completely transform the whole thought conceptualization of a breakup. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 25:39
It's, yeah, no, you're cooking. But a lot of people aren't ready for that.
Harry Turner 25:43
Yeah, that's, that's what I seek though. Like, really my passion for speaking cold. Like, right now. We speak and we speak in a way that the people need to receive this, this right here. But we also I speak in code, if you watch my tic tac, I speak in code off and I speak in like universal laws and unbind, the mental and the spiritual and, you know, flow. So I kind of flow like that. But it's like, that energy. I want to, I choose to be a vessel that pushes for that higher frequency energy. Even if no more than two people really understand what the hell I'm saying. There you go open that those two people, they'll go like, Okay, I'm not crazy. Right? Right. Or a stand on this and then spread this, you know? Yeah, I'd
Dr. Ritch Hall II 26:31
say I've listened to a few of yours. And I'm like, Wait, he is talking some deep stuff. You asked me before we got on, like, what brought me on? It was like, Nah, I know your brother who say it's a real job. It's a real knowledge and time. So it's like, okay, I can
Harry Turner 26:42
Yeah, I think back in the day, I probably was like, one of them a street corner guys. You know, I'm saying to just stand on a podium and just consciously talking, you know, I'm saying
Dr. Ritch Hall II 26:58
rock a rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us.
Harry Turner 27:04
I'm pretty sure all wadded up dad's. Right. Okay, so in terms of treatment, and management, what unique approaches do you find most effective for men dealing with anxiety?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 27:16
So much of its normalizing? You know, like I said, this is the thing that happens to your body. And that's okay. And trying to sort of, as I said before, how do I help them see some aspects of how they've been? Might not be right, but how do I help them not stigmatize who they are, right? A lot of times they're getting these messages from women, women are more verbal creatures, they tend to process emotions differently. And so they're like, I don't know, this language, how do I develop this language? And not feel like I'm the bad guy every time? Because you might not be right. She might be processing emotions, but not necessary. That doesn't mean she's processing them healthy. Right? And that the way she's been thought about you is healthy. Right? So how do I help you come to terms with the use of you, right? How do I help you get the frequency of use so that as you develop this sense of self, that can be healthy and emotionally more stable, or emotionally more resilient? And how do I not as you know, you mentioned before my systemic lens, like how do I not be disruptive to the system that is your life? Because there are times where, you know, I have to worry like, like a bomb, a bomb diffuser, right? Like, if I put the wrong wire, this thing might fall apart, right? Because now you got a lot of emotions that don't have a place in your life anymore, or never did. And your life might have to change dramatically, because you're now processing on a level that no one around us, you know, you've built this life for 40 years, and no one around you knows how to handle when you actually say out loud. Sad, right. And so a lot of what I'm often thinking about or trying to do is is not once again not stigmatize those emotions, give them a language for those emotions, try to figure out how to help them navigate their relationships, without disrupting them. And while at the same time knowing you came here because something needs to change.
Harry Turner 29:03
When I teach my clients quotes, the same quotes, I say, you know, out loud in public, but one of them is change is inevitable. Growth is optional, so choose
Dr. Ritch Hall II 29:13
wisely. Yep.
Harry Turner 29:16
That's the goal. Yeah, yeah. Anything not growing his day and
Dr. Ritch Hall II 29:19
change your compass you got inside of your growth rabbit?
Harry Turner 29:22
No, you're right. Exactly. That's it, okay. So, he read is that so is that so this is all about equanimity, which is the ability to remain serene in spite of being bombarded with so many stressors. Is that so emphasizes staying in a state of equanimity, okay, already understood. How do you guide men in maintaining or regaining equanimity admits mental health struggles.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 29:51
So a lot of what I try to teach is, once again, emotions are not everything, they are just data, but you do not have to, you know, The old CBT framework of, you know, we have emotions, we have thoughts, we have behaviors. And just because you experience emotions about whatever doesn't mean you have to behave, just because you have these thoughts that say, I need to move in that direction doesn't mean you have to behave, right. Just because you're behaved doesn't mean you have to get to these emotions about it. And so how do we help people sort of develop the and that's where my DBT training comes in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, which is, I can be mindful of this emotion aware, oh, wait, I don't know where anger has hit me. On the way this feeling came from? I heard what she said, But I shouldn't be even disagree about it. But I wonder why. rather than reacting with behaviors? How do I step back into my process? And go, what is this thing of suddenly holding on to and why? Maybe I need to step away for a second examine it. And then when I've processed it, how do I then go back and try communicate? And, you know, one of the challenges is, if she doesn't give me the room to communicate, how do I let her know, in a safe way? I just need a minute. Right? She wants me to immediately respond. And now she's worried that I haven't. But it's like, No, I'm fine. I just need a second. Because if I start talking right now, and nothing good coming out, right. And so a lot of what I try to teach is you could just you could just sit with the feeling. You don't have to do anything, just because the the feelings often will motivate you or push you to feel like you've got to do something, you got to punch that wall or whatever. But no step back and really kind of examine what you're feeling and why. And the better you get an understanding that the better you can be at not always feel like you know, you're being pulled around, tossed around by these feelings and emotions. Yes,
Harry Turner 31:32
good stuff, man. Good stuff. Anxiety, says the bodily experience of fear. Mm hmm. And so that I highlight that especially for men, because men don't like ski, sir, according to scientific research, if you are in an aggressive state, Mm hmm. That is a fight or flight state. Right, which is stimulated in the catalyst of that is fear.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 32:00
Right, right. Right, right. Right. Right.
Harry Turner 32:03
I used to be I was a therapist for a period for four years got my degree. It was no degree but four years as a therapist in multilevel security prison. Can I can tell you, the most fearful inmates were the most valid ones. Oh, yeah. Not the most dangerous, the most fearful ones. Now you get confused because they do the stabbings and whatnot. But most things are truly dangerous ones. Those were the gangsters. And those were the most polite people on the planet. Like I would have never had known that they had killed 300 People had a garden. I told me, you know, hey, that cat you had a great conversation with for two hours. Yeah, he's like, four, possibly 500 murders. Jake, thanks. Thanks, cat. Thanks. I walked away to let me know. Right? Oh, three hour conversation. Right. Right. Right. Right. But that's, but it's, it's, uh, I need to reorientate or miss structure, like men's understanding, I find exactly what fear is and how that manifests in us as aggression. Yeah, you know, it's aggression. A lot of the murders, you know, that you see, in the communities in the urban communities. A lot of that is the result of unresolved grief and not knowing how to deal with grief. Yes. Yeah, great grief and trauma. And so we move into a state of projection. And so the only way to deal with my grief is to deal with you, you know, mentality. Yep, exactly. But it never, never, if any, of course, it only worsens, because now you, you know, anybody sent to a permanent plantation? Because that's what I call it. And that's what it is. That's what I call it, you know, now you sent to a primary plantation. So who's really winning? You know, when I was in when I was in the prison, you know, I would tell them, oftentimes, I was like, you think that property the status is talking about the clothes that you wear? That was you. You know, people find it surprising to know that, you know, if a if an officer if it's a female officer, any officer, but if a female officer were to, per se, get caught having sex with the inmate, that it's actually rape, because the inmate can't give consent? Mm hmm. Yeah. state property. You can't even give consent. Yeah. So technically, you got to treat it the same way you would a child. You know, like those little things I saw when I was there and mess with me. That's why I couldn't be on for you, I can do for you beyond. It's
Dr. Ritch Hall II 34:28
our job. You know, once again, as a black man, there's a lot of people who will push me to push me towards forensics into the prison system. And I just wasn't built for it. Because it's like, just because I'm a six foot tall black man doesn't mean I want to do that every day. It is a very difficult population.
Harry Turner 34:45
Six foot tall. Hey, I didn't know you're six feet tall. I'm gonna force you to sit down. You know, but just six feet tall. It's cool, man. Cool.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 34:52
Cool. Yeah. And I come from a family full of a football players and what I chose to be an academic Hey,
Harry Turner 34:59
And that that helps. That probably helps me to feel more comfortable too, though, you know,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 35:04
sometimes, yeah. Sometimes it kind of it does until they find out I know nothing about sports. Football No, I did not play football. So rather than what everybody else that I like.
Harry Turner 35:20
And I don't know, what about what you just said reminded this, but I digress for a second you mentioned in the children and you know, my very first tour of mental health was dealing with families. And I quickly got out of that, because I found that young, very similar response that you get with mothers and sons, same thing for me. And it's so I found it so challenging, because I would go into the home and I would watch, you know, what's going on the dynamics, and after a week or so, two weeks, go to the mother, you know, and I'm like, hey, I can help you. Uh, you know, I can I can help him like when I'm with him, and we're talking like, he understands what I'm saying. Yeah. The challenge is, is that if you want your son to stop doing things like calling you a bitch, you're probably going to have to begin by stop calling him one first, right? I incur you come up in here and try to take their pies me Don't. Don't terrifies me, you know? Right. And so I was like, no matter what I do, like, they still are being conditioned in a specific environment that's going on, undo everything that I'm trying to do everything that we're working towards, and that it was maddening to me. So I just thought of that real quick. And I said, to the prison, you know, yeah, yeah,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 36:47
no, not done a lateral move by any means. I think that was one. That was why systems theory appealed to me when I was hurting my training, because I knew very quickly, that no matter what you did with the kid, and in my previous experience, before going to graduate school, I worked at an orphanage, right. So I worked at a place where we were providing interventions to children's usually in the foster system, and things like that. He called himself an orphanage, it's actually no longer an orphanage or whatever. But it dealt with foster kids. And I knew I learned very quickly, no matter what I do with this kid, they're still living in their home, wherever that may be, they're still going to their school, their, their, their school, system, their neighborhood, whatever. And I have to be cognizant of those influences. Because if I tell this kid, this is how you deal with anxiety, here have a stressful, but he goes into a classroom with teachers, like he's not allowed to have extra stuff on his desk, then what am I doing right? Or he goes home and mom's like, why don't want you to and that's weird, you're gonna need like, I had to be like, whatever we do, I'm navigating within the channels of these systems to help this person change. And with kids, kids have so little agency, right? That you just can't like, unlike adults, where you can say, okay, from now on, you're gonna start, you know, jogging in the morning to get some of the anxiety out before you go to work. I can't tell a kid that because they've got it, I've got to run that through three different people for that to happen, or, or the system has to accommodate, which he just might not. And so yeah, I definitely agree with the challenges of dealing with children in particular and families with this work because there are significant limitations.
Harry Turner 38:19
Yes, and considering Yerkes Dodson law, right. So the situation calls for the appropriate level of arousal, right, we got to begin immediate situation with appropriate level of arousal. We mental health or teaching to be centered. But it's like with a lot of these kids, it's more of a centering in a Bruce Lee type way, because they've adapted healthily to a maladaptive environment, as healthy as they can. Exactly, exactly. Do you want someone in the middle of the Vietnam War? To not be hyper vigilant? Right, not be alert at all times you're in, right. So if I know that this child is going right back into a war zone, that also tailors what interventions I could actually present towards, and that couldn't be effective, considering that they're in a war zone? Yes,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 39:16
yes. Yes, no. And that that speaks definitely to one of the challenges that I always had, particularly as a black male, right? Like, you know, there would be all these white female therapists who'd be like, well, there's no reason to ever hit No, in his neighborhood. He can't back down, right? If we sit him out the doors of this establishment, he's got to have some toughness to him. So how do we teach them a healthy version of this masculinity? Where it's like, no, don't hit the kid next to you in class. But when you're in a situation where yes, you are truly under threat, then you do need to be prepared to pop off because if I removed that completely, that he might be a more danger, because this system that's trying to teach him these skills, these coping strategies, isn't there to protect him out there. And that's not to say that, you know, he can't Ever, like, that's not to say that once again, this idea of discernment, right? That's, that's often what I'm trying to teach particularly male clients. It's like, hey, sometimes there might be a threat like, right? Like, you might be walking with a woman and a dude just has a reckless mouth. What do you do in that circumstance? But like, when it's just you and your woman, and she has a reckless now, you can't use the same tactics? Right. And so that was often one of the challenges that I felt like, you know, we were talking earlier about like, what's, what's sort of different about what I do is, once again, there are some times where you, we can never remove that, that, that version of masculinity from the table completely because the world is still the world, and the world is dangerous. We often fool ourselves in American society. No, no, everything's nice and, and puppy dogs and rainbows. But no, there's two blocks, that way, you can find yourself in a weird situation, how do you be ready for that? But also, over here? That ain't the right strategy. That is the right tactic.
Harry Turner 40:51
Yeah, if the world was harmless, then we would not be terrified of being homeless. Right. Right. Right. You know, though, yeah, they will say to say, you know, take on a pollyannish viewpoint from a castle, and come down and live among the peasants.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 41:08
Right, right, right. And for most people, we got like, two paychecks away, right? Like, the, the world coming back for us, like, hey, all that stuff is ours, you live out here now.
Harry Turner 41:19
That's it. This is where the spiritual component comes in. For me, though, for me personally, where I have to walk by faith and not by sight, you know, some of those laws were that connect for me, the mental and the spiritual, I noticed that science is finally catching up to the deeper spiritual truths that had always been revealed, such as in quantum mechanics, a lot of things are being revealed if you're listened to like Joe Dispenza. And he talks about the manifestation via the internal world, you know, and really experiencing that internally. Well, how different is that from polyvagal theory in talking about regulation, you know, regulating the internal because state dictates story, according to polyvagal theory, Steven Porges, you know, and so for me, how different is that from going to, like, in my own faith, where it says, focus on these things that are good, that are positive, that are good nature, you know, doesn't really give the scientific explanation for these things? Yeah, which we see that is totally in alignment, as science evolves, I can advance it's totally in alignment with what's already been discovered, you know, like, it's, it's, so some of these situations, it's like, I have to explain it, like in a situation where a brother's going into a dangerous neighborhood. I said, there's ego and then the Spirit. Ego uses fear as a superpower with spirit users love. The ego is not a bad thing. It's just a survival. It's a survival thing. It's all about that first bracket of highest lowest mark higher need. So when you are in imminent threat or harm, you unleash that ego, you let the ego do what it was designed to do. Right? It's just you know, when you're when a bear is in front of you, and when a bear you imagining the bear in front of you. Right, you got to discern the difference between you Right?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 43:07
Right. Right, right. No, no.
Harry Turner 43:09
Yeah, man,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 43:11
I'm with you. I'm with it.
Harry Turner 43:12
All right. Let me get, let me get to some of these other questions, man, we just want to where we go. And I was just about to ask you about spirituality. So in your practice, how do you integrate spirituality into the therapeutic process for those dealing with anxiety?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 43:27
So for me, spirituality depends on where the person is because as a person who himself so my father is a pastor, I don't talk about that a lot. And I have my own sense of spirituality. When you and I were talking about this, I think offline, it's like which identity or they asked you before, when, in a session with someone, for me, I do know, it guides my sense of, it's one of my writers, but I do my best to not make it theirs. But it's also like, I know I'm operating from this lens of, you know, there's a higher power who's keeping me on a trajectory. And so long as I am adhering to that principle, then I'll be fine. I tried to, and I know it probably comes out because much of the language that I use by virtue of upbringing with you know, the Bible, I often like to ask like, hey, what do you how do you stand on the Bible? They're like, No, because like, if nothing else gets a good tone, wherein for 1000s of years, we wrote down some really good ideas about how the human mind works, right? Like within it, you'll find, you know, that which I shouldn't do I do that which I do. I shouldn't do, right. Like it's it's in the, in the book, passage, right?
Harry Turner 44:36
Just crazy going and going.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 44:37
Yeah, but the idea that humans have been struggling with these issues, this, this anxiety, this, you know, there's so many different moments of anxiety in the Bible, where somebody is literally going to their Creator and saying, Why is this happening to me and the creators? Like, I mean, just, you know, you'll be fine. And so very often when I'm trying to help people with anxiety, it is this. How do you tap into the much larger sense of you'll be fine. That it's, it's still there and within the the tapestry of your life, something has guided you, whatever it is that voice is trustworthy. And you can believe that voices you believe that voice is greater than you. But it's still all it's never led you astray. So how do we get you closer to that? And when they are open to a more, you know, sort of on the nose conversation about spirituality that I'm talking from that lens, but with not I know that it's, it's within my framework, right? So I don't ever, I never get too far away from it, even when sometimes I'm like, don't do this, don't bring this into this, this person's thing, because that's not what they're seeing in their system. But I know, it guides me. So I know it's part of what I'm doing with, with men and trying to help them to get to that. You know, we kind of like you were saying earlier, the ego is telling you there's danger all about, but maybe you're just imagining the danger. And that's, that's okay, there's times where you listen to that voice, because the right in front of you is the bear. And there are times where you just imagine embarrassed because you thought you heard a growl somewhere, right? So how do you discern better that moment of what's really in front of me and what's going to be okay, if I just let that fear pass. That's
Harry Turner 46:11
where the whole web attention goes. Energy flows. I said it often. Because if you're if your attention goes to a bear, but your physical body location is not there, you need to be able to discern that now you projected your energy there. And so you're responding as such, which is that I know you're familiar with this pretty, pretty confident you're hoping maybe it is but like the 54321 grounding exercise, you teach it. Exactly. Your body is always in the present moment. Regardless of where your mind goes, It hates staying in the present moment. First off the mind. Right? Oh, it's always predicting for threats and stuff. Because again, scarcity mindset, it's survival mechanism. That's essentially what it is a bad survival mechanism. But that body has no choice, but to be always in the present moment. So if you need to ground yourself in an anxious state, get to that in mind, which, again, that's a whole nother conversation because men don't like to be in a body, you know, right, right. Right, right.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 47:11
If you gotta go into the mind, if you got to grab a gun and go up the hill, they don't want you in your body, right? There's been there's, there's training, right? We train them young to do that. We train them in sports, we train them in all these different ways in which men are pushed to go beyond the body, transcend, in some ways, so that you can perform. But unfortunately, once again, society shifting away from those particular values means that that's no longer as useful. A skill and, you know, we know that as we've learned more about mental health, that it's actually pretty dangerous. Ah,
Harry Turner 47:42
and yet, the people that speak to most violence still make the most money. Mm hmm. You know, this is, I mean, because one of my one of my credentials are heart centered Hypnotherapist. So, I know that one of the greatest insights I gained from that training is all hypnosis is self hypnosis entities, you know, if I'm just gonna drill rap, over and over and over and over again, I am merging. I am calibrating my frequency to then, you know, like,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 48:14
it's just music man here. It's just music.
Harry Turner 48:18
I see. And don't don't let somebody religious telling me it's just music because no one would that you know, but ya know, just that that constant repetition. And so I have to highlight those things that really you really have to be intentional about creating an ecosystem for the frequency that you're desiring to be in, you know, yeah, but hip hop and you know, these different variations of that subcultures of it branches of it, it's still it's doing the opposite. Yeah, it's it's doing the opposite you know, there's no way you know, not all of course, we always say that disclaimer, not all but the
Dr. Ritch Hall II 49:00
reason somebody's selling a particular genre, right. There's a reason there are certain people are pushing a particular brand of it to the to the masses, you know, I'm a fan of hip hop. Most of my mostly Hip Hop I like is that this point? You know, 20 something years they adore the people who are still doing it but not doing it in those mainstream ways. Because I just can't anymore Did you know there was I feel like in the nine nine in the 2000s where I was like, this is not going the direction I want to be anymore you know, younger me could tolerate this but older means like, I need more melodies. I need more you know, more softness in the world I'm trying to create so but I see it it can I won't say confuses me it just surprises me that when older people are like no I gotta listen to this music But kids are listening to it I'm like no you don't you don't have to do that you can curate your environment. Why are you letting them curate your your essentially emotional and spiritual environment is kind of what we're talking about here.
Harry Turner 49:55
My favorite artist was DMX I can favorite was to buy or at some point with DMX though i was i was when i was tuned into able to feel how angry I was. And I tuned into that. I was like he said his day I still could recite DMX his words. That's how much I listened to his stuff. But I realized at some point that that was gonna get me in some trouble, because of the frequency I was in was asking for me to project out the painting I was experiencing, which is a lot of like what DMX does on his record. Yeah. And I said, Okay, how do I switches up? I mean, my partners laughed at me, you know, I'm saying because he these, you know, my pawns are down to earth, you know, a lot of things go to college and stuff like that, you know, so he, they can keep it real. You call and all of a sudden, they don't want to hit the max date here. And Ella Fitzgerald, and Laura and Louis Armstrong, they want to do with it. Yeah, what the hell is happening? Yeah, what is this? And so just having that uncomfortable dialogue, like adding salt. Right, but you know, I mean, yeah, I mean, to not also be insane. Like, right, right. Right. Right. Right.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 51:07
Listen to this all the time. No, I'm not sure.
Harry Turner 51:10
Exactly. All right, brother, man. Let me I think you've already added you've already gave practical steps that men can start to do to improve their mental health. Yeah, we
Dr. Ritch Hall II 51:22
talked about it just being more connected with your body. I think journaling our thoughts and feelings, stepping back, holding the emotion rather than feeling like you got to behave or respond every time. It's definitely like the the first steps to I always tell people, the first step is just awareness of what am I feeling and why, like, if you can get that first step, the next step is then what do I do about it? Right, but if you can get better at what just happened? What Why am I in this emotional space right now?
Harry Turner 51:50
Awareness is key. Awareness is key. Yeah, that's essential to life. Again, the use of freedom can coexist. Harriet Tubman was credited for credited for not saying that this really originated from her but credited for saying, I freed 1000 slaves and I would have freed if I had the only known there were slaves. Right? Right. And so that psychological, you, you're not a slave into your broken mentally, you know, that's why they had to chop off come to foot, you know, because he was a slave. Right? Right. Right. He wouldn't turn United slave until you're broken mentally, you know, and so a lot of us from that mental component. And just, if I were to bring it to the using religious texts, right for a second, it says, Do not conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, the mental, and it's fascinating to me that even in the religious and spiritual communities, and you're gonna highlight these things, but then not be curious about understanding the mind and exactly how it says literally, transformation takes place at the mental.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 52:55
Right, right. Right, right, right. Right. Right.
Harry Turner 52:59
Why are we avoiding that? Yeah, I
Dr. Ritch Hall II 53:01
know, you're gonna open up some things that people don't want to touch. So let's let's just act as if it's not important.
Harry Turner 53:07
Okay. Closing thoughts. All right. All right. All right. For men listening who may be struggling in silence? What message do you want to leave them with today? I
Dr. Ritch Hall II 53:19
guess mostly that silence is deadly, right? You can, you can really, you're going to feel isolated, you're gonna feel alone, but there's somebody out there who will listen, you got to be willing to find those those people to seek those resources in the same way that we are often so good at seeking out devices, right, seeking out drugs and alcohol and sex, we also have to seek out those things that could provide us with a sense of equilibrium and health and balance. And if we do not do that, we know we know how this game ends if we don't. So rather than just struggling and being afraid, why it's so interesting, to me, sometimes it matters more afraid to talk openly with someone about their feelings than they are to, you know, engage in more self destructive, more avoidant behaviors. It's like, the the worst a therapist is going to do just be like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I heard that. And, you know, let's get you more help. Let's talk again. But very often, it's like, but I can't tell anybody what I'm thinking what I'm feeling and it's like, no, there are people out there whose job it is to listen to, to be there for you. So use those resources, you know, and just be you know, the way to be trapped is to not be flexible, right to to not be flexible to the options to to chances opportunities, but if you get rigid if you get stagnant, then yeah, you're gonna you're gonna continue to suffer you know, things don't change unless you change.
Harry Turner 54:44
As the Chinese proverb goes, it's hard to call rotten wood and flexibility, which is mental rigidity. It's in mental health. It's called and I'm saying this for audience already know, you notice mental rigidity. It's called a trans diagnostic factor. which means that you see this pretty much across the spectrum with mental illness. And so the more mentally rigid a person is, are we, the more you can detect that rigidity usually represents the presence of illness, which you notice the the same goes, you know, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Because of that mental rigidity, people get set in a certain way of living and seeing life. And then flexibility actually represents unhealthiness. Because how can we get to a space where we can say, we can remain the same for the rest of our lives when we know that the one constant in existence is change? And Darwinism, you know, bring a little bit of that. And Darwin, it was about the species survival of the fittest was about those who could adapt, it was about adaptability. So when you become mentally rigid, you essentially handicap your ability to adapt, which represents illness, you know, you just wanted to highlight that real quick.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 55:57
Do it do it talk to talk? Yes, sir.
Harry Turner 56:01
And final question. No, I have a curve question for you taking the last question. Where can our listeners find more about your work and resources on men's mental health and anxiety?
Dr. Ritch Hall II 56:13
Yes, so I can be found on my websites like works Clinic. My website, my website is psych works llc.com I can be done on Tik Tok at siteworks Clinic. I can be found on Instagram at siteworks Clinic things like where's Twitter LLC, one of those. So Tiktok Instagram and Facebook is where you can find a lot of my other work. And see I usually once a day, during the work week, put up a video where you can catch me talking about mental health topics, giving you some tidbits, some some skills and things like that. So I'm all over the internet, trying to try to promote this idea of mental health, trying to promote some strategies around mental health that can help people improve and see some progress in their life around mental health.
Harry Turner 57:01
Man, thank you so much for being on the set. But I do have a final question. And I will put those contact information. For those y'all who are listening to this at this point. I'm gonna put that down at the bottom. So you have that. But the curveball so I saw one of your go check them out on tick tock, y'all. I checked out her stuff as well. I saw on tick tock you and you had mentioned you said Oh, therapist. That's it. That's it. Yeah. You were telling you I mentioned in therapists, you said, therapists also have egos. Elaborate on that, my brother.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 57:32
Well, so what I was talking about at that time was the idea that, you know, most people think of us as like these givers, these helpers. And one of the things that I often remind people is that most of us will get into this profession to help other people. It's because we believe that we're the person who's supposed to help it isn't that some help to be done out there by someone, it's, I shouldn't be doing that. Right. So somewhere in my ego is wired this need to give to others and to feel away if they're not listening to the help, right? Therapists, I gotta like put that in check. Like, wait, they didn't come to me because I'm the perfect person to tell them all the right things to do. But that if I don't check that ego that I'm gonna have these moments of, you're not even listening to me. And I'm important to listen to Right? Like, I got a whole Doctor, what do I know? I'm just it's the but it is, it is a part of just sort of what's good how we're wired, right, as a human being, you have an ego, it is inescapable. And so that doesn't mean that just because I took this, this career on, where I'm helping other people, it doesn't mean that I'm not invested personally in the outcomes. And so recognizing that I think, as a therapist is recognizing what are my limitations? What are the resources I actually have to bear when it actually comes to trying to help others? And how can I, you know, once again, discern, when am I fully present? When am I not? What am I doing this just because my ego is like, Nope, I need this, I need to stand up in front of everybody and be the smart person right now. My kid doesn't get hurt, but I'm gonna throw a tantrum, whatever. And, you know, my own personal work with learning how to navigate that without it becoming a thing that's disruptive, because it can what's gonna go it was a thing that would be very helpful, but also could burn the whole thing down in spite of itself, right. So so I think therapists have to be aware of that role of the ego in their work, because if they're not, it gets dangerous. And that's, that's usually where, you know, you're writing straightforward ethical violations or whatever, because you're, you know, now it's about you. It's not about the work, man,
Harry Turner 59:26
I'm out. So I'm actively promoting my stuff on tick tock right now, which is why the Jews have been going up on tick tock, this whole means of, you know, reaching that point, I think it's somewhere around like 10,000 people to get 10,000 Before you can get the exactly so I'm trying to get to that as I transition away from therapist, and I don't know if you know, I don't even know if tick tock will be beneficial but I have to choosing to explore that as a possibility right. But I'm like, I see how these promotions just looking from $1 standpoint, I'm like, You promote in people paid to four vanity metrics, it's it's a vanity metrics followers you have and how many likes you get? It's all it's all. So the system itself to participate in it essentially have to engage in the most egocentric.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 1:00:15
Oh no, it rewards ego. Absolutely.
Harry Turner 1:00:17
Yeah. You know, and that is the constant reminder that I have to do as I'm actively promoting and promoting this as option is like, remember having all of this is vanity. All of this is straight pure ego, which means that it's it's, it's essentially us falling in love with our own farts. That's what it is, you know, I'm saying like,
Dr. Ritch Hall II 1:00:40
You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Yeah, no,
Harry Turner 1:00:43
you're totally right, man. And that just helps me to, you know, so yeah, there's a book by and I have it in front of me, but Chris Niemeyer, I believe, Dr. Chris naeba. He uses how he says how neuro psychology is catching up to Buddhism, again, that concept of, you know, spiritual truth, always speaking when these mental realities, but I'm no self, no problem. And so he uses neuro psychology to explain how this projection of self this mean, how that does not exist, and how we just know that there's something organizing and projecting to me, but science itself shows that there's nothing really there. Yes, something there, but there's nothing really there. And so all of this in defense of me, you know, that's one of the things I hit the young brothers with is that it's sort of kind of like Neo and Morpheus leaning over to Neo and say, and you think that's air, you're breathing, right? You think that your ego is real? Right? This thing that you need to defend that you just gotta go and, you know, get back, or whatever else. thing that you're trying to defend, you really think that sometimes I have to take a much more transcendent perspective. Yeah, to prevent a real situation from occurring. You know, yeah. So yeah, I find that the limits, there's limits in those type of specific situations, especially in the fight or flight with logical, a certain kind of way. You have to engage that transcendent functioning of the mind. Beyond what is actually logical from the field. You know, it's a logical response based
Dr. Ritch Hall II 1:02:19
on a reasonable response to that circumstance. But yeah,
Harry Turner 1:02:23
yes, it's all ego. Yeah, brother, man, this has been this has been a blessing, man, thank you for you know, blessing the set, man being a part of this, this podcast like this is, and I would like to do more things with you as well. I'm definitely gonna call you back. Because this this dialogue, I'm gonna do minimum editing of this, because it's so many, so many jewels than everyone, but especially men need to hear in and especially specially black men. Yeah, you know, yeah. But yeah, man, thank you for bringing your perspective, your knowledge or expertise, you know, and just, you know, taking the time to talk to me today, man.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 1:03:05
Yeah. So it's been fun. And I like I said, I like to do these, these these interviews, because, once again, I think it's important to raise the visibility of those of us doing this work. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of us. Not enough of us out there and not enough of us visible that people know, I wouldn't be a psychologist if I hadn't met a black male psychologists and said, Oh, he reminds me one of my uncle's I could be that, like, I could, you know, that's a there's an avenue for me.
Harry Turner 1:03:30
As we are liberated from our fears, our very President gives us permission to the same old Marianne Williamson, I'm finding myself quoting that pretty much every every episode, like there's some, yes, it's true. And that's it. That's it. We're lighting up. We're being that's why we out here. You know, I'm telling you, what you out here for you know, why you out here, but I'm saying ultimately, there is also a need for us to be seen. It really is. Yeah. Because just that by itself is going to inspire other young men, other young black men to fall in that path. Because we need we need people, right? I mean, they called me down here where I'm from, they call me a unicorn. Because, like therapists like talking about, you know, like, male therapists were still like unicorns in his field, like, oh, yeah, that's a problem. You know, that's, that's the issue. Yeah. Anyway, thank you again, man.
Dr. Ritch Hall II 1:04:25
Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And
Harry Turner 1:04:28
y'all please check out this episode. Please go check out my brother on all the links that I put down there especially to tick tock you know, definitely support him and follow him. Listen to the videos. Don't just stop the videos like the videos if you liked the video, you know, like, share, go share, repost because that's really that's really how you get into the algorithm on tick tock, you know, it's a vanity metric. So if you see something that's meaningful, make sure that you engage you know, with the post and share like repo was all of those things. All right, so we need to promote that conscious, that conscious content out there. It's too littered and inflated with basically, mental flatulence. Like we need that real
Harry Turner 1:05:19
you know, so we need to support conscious creators and people that's putting real knowledge out there that could save somebody's life and if not save, definitely improve our life. Okay, and y'all know me, my mission is to assist others in developing the audacity to live, unapologetically authentic. This has been a very special episode with Dr. Richie Hall The second and we are as we continue another chapter of his death so I hope our journey today has left you with more than just thoughts but a call to live intentionally, live intentionally deeply, authentically and truthfully. The path of self discovery of Self knowledge is infinite, a labyrinth where each turn reveals more of who we are and can be that this conversation be a lantern in the dark guiding you back to yourself time and again, until we meet next outlier. Continue to seek question and live in the profound truth that defines your existence. Agave, and stay lit. Live in truth