Harry Turner 0:05
Welcome seekers of truth to another season "Is That SOO?" Here we embark on the journey together a quest not just for answers, for the right questions that lead us to the core of who we are. Season Four unfolds with many insights and revelations that challenge us to peel away the facades and meet our authentic selves. Let's be illuminated, transformed, and indeed become L.I.T. The knowledge of our true selves. Welcome outlier.
Harry Turner 0:35
What's going on outliers, this is another amazing episode brought to you by yours truly The Nocturnal Therapist, season four of "Is that SOO? Faith in healing, Madison Daniels on overcoming addiction and finding truth. It's all about truth. Well this season, why living in truth is important is because we all seeking to return back to our truth. The truth, returned back to love this quest for love this search to learn what we can love about ourselves. We noticed that love as we continue on that quest, to really loving ourselves, that there is this introduction is repeated interaction with truth. And it's in that truth that we experience a certain level of liberation, this experience with freedom occurs, this gradual freedom that then gives you the ability or opens up the space and capacity for you to love yourself. And so we see that love and truth goes hand in hand, which is why I say love and truth is married. So to live in truth, one has to also understand what is love, you know how to love oneself, and then by extension, how to love everyone else. And so I'm excited for this episode, I brought on a very special guest, Madison Daniels yo, Madison Daniels again.
Harry Turner 2:16
Madison is normalizing all things embarrassing in life. Madison is a podcast are focused on normalizing all things embarrassing, in taboo, the taboo to in life. She's normalizing these things, y'all. So I'm asking what taboo stuff she's normalizing. She shares her journey with losing her father, getting divorced before 30. struggling with mental health and becoming an alcoholic with a striking but entertaining realism. She is open and candid on her recovery journey and how seeking faith and getting involved in the AAA community changed the trajectory of her life for the better. And so without further ado, I'm going to invite on our guest, Madison Daniels. Hi. The crowd loves you. The crowd welcomes you very excited to hear what you have to say. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. So thank you for coming in agreeing to be you know, sharing space as we explore this topic of living in truth. And I just want to give you a moment to introduce yourself to the people and exactly why you care about speaking on this, like why are you even on this podcast right now?
Madison Daniels 3:29
Is that alright?
Madison Daniels 3:30
Absolutely. Like I said, Thank you so much for having me a huge fan of what you're doing just with the show, and what you're allowing people to share across units in many different platforms. So I'm excited to be here today because I went through a really long downhill spiral pretty much all of my 20s where I struggled with addiction with the getting caught up in drinking drugs party lifestyle, I got married and divorced in my 20s. I lost my dad in 2020. From COVID. I had a couple of businesses I worked out that were bought and sold. I just went through a lot of life changes and a really small amount of time. And I found myself at the end of that feeling lost and alone and not realizing that anybody else ever has or ever will struggle with what I was struggling with which was being depressed being addicted to alcohol. The alcohol eventually wasn't enough so then I had to add it and drugs to try to make all these feelings I was trying to escape go away. And I felt a lot of shame around my story. I felt a lot of shame around the fact that I got married and divorced before 30 that I had had so many jobs that I was struggling with addiction that I had to cancel on going different places or doing different things because I knew alcohol was going to be there and as I got involved in just recovery the a community I realize there's a ton of people out there that are actually struggling with the exact same things that I'm struggling with. And while a lot of people just don't want to talk about it, a lot of people do struggle with anxiety, depression, addiction, having to get into support groups, therapy, struggling with faith, all of these different things. And so I really just want to bring to light a lot of just challenging topics, and share different things that have worked for me, or that helped me whenever I was going through a difficult time, that might help her inspire somebody else while they're going through their difficult season.
Harry Turner 5:40
Okay, before we begin, I have a question, what is the taboo that you talk about? Like what is the taboo? Yeah,
Madison Daniels 5:48
so I'm talking a lot about struggling with alcohol and drugs, having to mix alcohol and drugs on an average Tuesday to get through the day, I talk about, you know, going in turning my back on God and thinking that there was no God and being angry with God, to then come to a place where I had faith, I had recovery. So a lot of it, I think, is mental health and addiction and faith. Because I think all three of those topics are topics where people don't really want to share if they're feeling depressed, or maybe they're taking medication for it. People don't really want to share, if they're in AAA, even all people that I'm in AAA with, they don't share with people in their everyday life that they're in AAA. And then also, you know, the aspect of just struggling with faith, I think a lot of times people think like, oh, just trust believe and like, Damn, it should be easy. And that's not it. And so just being open and normalizing that it's okay to struggle with faith, it's okay to not, you know, or at least think that God has your best interest at heart. But eventually you do need to figure that out, you do need to come back to him about a taboo things we're trying to normalize.
Harry Turner 6:55
So is this also a form of inspiring people to maybe move towards your faith, I
Madison Daniels 7:05
would say not necessarily my faith, but a fate. I refer to a lot of things is like my higher power. So whenever I got into the recovery community, they are very focused on you need to have a higher power, you need to have a spiritual connection. But how you choose to do that is up to you and what you choose to deem your higher power is up to you. So really, I try to focus on I think having a spirituality, I think that having a connection with God are things that really will change your life, but not in a way where I'm necessarily saying, here's what you have to say, and here's what you have to do. And here's how you, you know, obey God, it's more, here's some things that I've learned on my journey and some lessons I've learned the hard way, and some ways that it can kind of pertain to faith as a whole. So
Harry Turner 7:53
you're not proselytizing then? Correct? Okay. You
Harry Turner 7:57
know, in software I was at it was trying to get around to that without directly asking that because, you know, there's a lot of people who experience quote, unquote, religious trauma, you know, and so the moment that you start using the word God, you know, there's a reason why a lot of people appeal to, you know, have gravitated towards Buddhism, especially those that were in the Christian church, you know, Buddha, he decided not to use the word God, you know, and so just that association with the word God, and the way it's been used against a lot of people, it leaves the negative connotation, you know, eventually your mind is just compare that as negative.
Madison Daniels 8:36
I also was one of those people that like, if you wanted to talk to me about God, I immediately wrote you off, I did not want anything to do with that. I had a lot of animosity towards God, or what I thought was God for a really long time. So whenever I got into AAA, and they were like, like, higher power, I was like, okay, higher power I can do that I can start with and so I definitely understand, you know, that struggling with the concept of God, especially if you're in a place where maybe things haven't gone how you thought, like, we'd go and you're angry or resentful at God or maybe prayed to God for things that haven't come to fruition before. And so I definitely have experienced a lot of that as well.
Harry Turner 9:19
What do you think?
Harry Turner 9:21
What are your thoughts on just the current environment right now and the merger between religion
Harry Turner 9:29
and the state or politics? I'm
Madison Daniels 9:34
not gonna lie to you. I have not been keeping up so I'm not familiar with what the latest trends or changes have been.
Harry Turner 9:43
There's a Christian nationalist movement, okay. It's like a merger between it's like the clans version of Christianity. You know, and but that's taken, you know, that's, that's where we are politically that's why the the politicians that they have right now being able to have reached these higher positions where they've been using the church. So and so I see the church, cosigning, a whole lot of people that are not even believing those beliefs, you know it basically snake oil salesmen that show charlatans, but I see the church fallen victim to their own biases and prejudices that they are projecting onto them. And basically, the politicians are doing what it is that they actually want to do, but feel powerless to do. But all of that is rooted in hate, not love. It's rooted in fear, self hatred, these lower frequencies, it's really from a religious perspective, it's really the flesh praise praising the flesh. It's the it's the ego praising the golden calf as it were, it's the church Jews in a Barrabas over Jesus, again, we think we better because we had a different time. And we can look back and say, Well, I would never do this or that. No, we're the same, the same humans that existed back then. And the same humans that existed now we're more evolved, you know, energetically, we've evolved more we know more. And so we have more evolved version of them. But still, those same animal instincts are in us. And I see that at the forefront. And so there's a lot of people who are leaving Christianity as a result of this incongruence between truth, and what is being professed and acted upon, because essentially, religion from a pure sense, is the action of me living out my beliefs. So all of us have a religion, regardless of what we say, that's our religion. Yeah, so all of us have religious beliefs. And so I'm looking at those that profess to be Christian, but yet their actions, beliefs, Jesus said, Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and get to God who belongs to God, these people are fighting in line and cheating just to become Caesar. But when we were talking about religious trauma, I know that people are looking, they're looking, you know, they're looking at how we speak how we live. And I say we, because I identify as Christian. But I'm not exactly I'm not part of that evangelical movement, like, I'm definitely not a Christian nationalist, I mean, I'm just not part of that club,
Madison Daniels 12:00
I really kind of identify as like, I'm not necessarily like, on Wednesday nights at a church, maybe at some point, that'll be in my future. But right now, I really just kind of relate to connecting with my higher power through meditation, through prayer, through different things within a community. And then really talking about kind of what I've been learning on my faith journey, when it pertains to being tested with faith when it pertains to, when you level up, you get tested, I think a lot of the challenges is, I think sometimes people want to, they want to be in the church, and they want to tell about God, but maybe it's not their time yet. And then you know, they have an opportunity, and then you know, they kind of mess it up for somebody else. And I think a lot of it is about like, also being candid that because you're Christian doesn't mean you're perfect, but you can also add up to what you're doing wrong, and accountability for those things, and try to work to be better at those things. And like you're saying, like, religion is how you act like some days, I'm a hot mess, and things get really bad. I do things and say things that I shouldn't. But on the other side of that, what am I learning? And what am I choosing to actively do different? So I don't become you know, a version of myself that I don't want to be or that I don't like or that, you know, goes back to some of those habits that I had
Harry Turner 13:17
prior. I don't believe anybody would experience religious trauma from someone who operates from that approach, you know,
Harry Turner 13:26
so this is good.
Harry Turner 13:26
I'm glad to have you on the show. Let me jump back into this list of questions that I have for you answered a lot of it though, could you share your story with us highlighting how faith played a pivotal role in your journey of healing from addiction and overcoming mental health challenges? Yeah,
Madison Daniels 13:42
so whenever I started going to AAA, I actually started going to AAA on a Wednesday. So if you're not sure how bad of a drinking problem I had just a random weeknight on like a weekend or a holiday just a Wednesday. So I feel like I'm almost having this like spiritual knowing of like, I have to go to AAA if I want to stay sober. But at the time, I was still really wrestling with the fact that I was an alcoholic. Because whenever I quit drinking, I realized that I had a problem. I didn't realize that I always had a problem and that I have an addictive personality. And if I have one drink, I have to have 15 drinks and drink every day. And so whenever I quit drinking, I didn't know those things. I was just like, Oh, I've been drinking way too much like every day for a couple of years. That's probably not good. We should stop. So I stopped drinking and I go through what I can now identify as really bad withdrawals emotionally, mentally, physically, like had to get on antidepressants to I tried alcohol craving pills at one point, like all these different things. So I go to AAA on this random Wednesday, and I get there and I'm having this whole internal battle the whole way there. I'm like on the way to AAA and I don't want to be going because I think that there's something wrong with me quit drinking. And I know a lot of other people that never had to quit drinking, because they can have one or two drinks and not ruin their life and I couldn't. And so I have this internal shame and anger towards the situation that I'm in. And now I have to go to AAA, which, in my mind, I had deemed as a bad thing. And so I am, you know, having this battle of like, I get there, and I'm like, I could lead and nobody would ever know that I need to come to AAA or I was one of those people or anything. So say this little prayer, and I'm like, Hey, God, it's me. I don't know if you're out there if you're listening. But I really want to get my life together. And my therapist says, I should try a. So I'm here at AAA trying it. If you're out there, and you're real. And this is like what I need to do and how to get my life together. Like, I need a sign. Like whenever I go into this meeting, I need to know like, yes, no, like, I need to be very clear. Because at this point, I'm, like, willing to try anything. So I'd say this little prayer. And that's exactly how I say it. I was like, hi, God, it's me if you're there if you're listening, if you're real. And I go into this AAA meeting, and I sat in the back and I cried the whole meeting, because every single person that spoke, I needed to hear what they shared, I realized that people sitting in this room, they weren't embarrassed to be there. They weren't ashamed to be there. They were getting coffee and having cookies with their friends Susie, Joe, and I was like, Okay, what do these people have that I don't have? And how are they able to stay sober. And I realized the only thing they had that I didn't have was faith. And I was like, Okay, if faith is what it takes to stay sober, like, Hey, God, it's me, I know, I've said, I'm gonna like go all in with you and give you my life before but this time, I'm minute, because I need to stay sober. I don't want to wake up a couple years from now and realize I've been drinking everyday again. So I make this commitment. Like, I'm gonna go all in with God, things started to change in my life. At this point, I only would refer to God as my higher power, because AAA says, You have to have a higher power. I'm like, Fine, God, I'm gonna do it. I really want what these people have. They say, you know, faith is the way so I'm going to try things start to slowly change for the better. And that looked like me slowly, being able to let go of some anxiety of some depression guide, I was able to have somebody to pray to to say, hey, right now I really want to drink it. But I'm in recovery. So please help me to not drink like I suddenly have this access to this resource that I never knew that I needed, where I could go to prayer, meditation, hey, here's what I'm facing today. You know, I really need help, I started getting into a lot of spiritual practices, different things like that. And it really started to change my mindset. And I learned that, like, I get to choose my mindset, I can literally rewire my brain, I was anxious, and I was depressed, and I was addicted. But I can choose to say those were things that I went through, those are not things that define me. And as I'm moving into the next chapter, how do I rewire my brain from being anxious to somebody who's not anxious from somebody who's depressed to somebody who's happy them, somebody who is addicted to somebody who no longer has obsessive thoughts of the next drink, or the next hit or the next pill. So that is the long version.
Harry Turner 18:21
Oh, I appreciate all of that web attention goes energy flows, you mentioned about seeing this person, this other person, you have an access to resources that you didn't know or that you didn't have before. This is what I call transcending levels of consciousness as you transcend levels of consciousness. As your energy begins to raise up, you gain access to resources that otherwise you wouldn't have had access to before. They caught Rene Descartes. He says, I think, therefore I am. And it's more appropriately stated, the opposite. I am therefore I think, you know, any choices that we make based off of certain programs based off of these emotions, at certain levels of consciousness, the the only option at certain levels is escapism repression, or pure projection expression, you know, what we just projecting our pain out and as everybody else, and we're bitter and angry and judgmental constantly. But then when we choose to surrender, which radical acceptance is a surrender practice for me. So when we choose to accept, we can't change what we don't accept. And when we choose to accept and surrender, we realize that there's this path. Now there's this doorway that we can enter into, and we don't really know what it looks like, intuitively, we know that we got to walk through that door. That's the only option. Everything else is the same option. And again, we got driving ourselves in saying and doing the same thing expecting different results. So we walked through the door. And when you walk through the door, we begin to see life from a different context and as our experience of good recontextualize from a different level of consciousness, the content is changing, because perception is the egos projection. And so we don't see things as they are. But as we also as we transcend levels of consciousness, we realize that things were there that were available to us that we just couldn't see completely invisible. It was like we were blind. And now we can see,
Madison Daniels 20:26
honestly, you just blew my mind, everything you just said, makes so much sense. But I never was able to relate it in the way that you just explained it. Tell me more. The connection that was cool.
Harry Turner 20:46
That's actually my gift, to see patterns, and then provide an uncommon explanation. And when I get the downloads, it comes with a certain level of confidence that's needed, because sometimes the downloads I get are not the evidence is hadn't showed up just yet. Yeah. But I need to be sure on what it is that I'm saying. That's what I see combined in my study, and with the insights because that's where it, knowledge has to be in motion, knowledge and motion is wisdom, the mind thinks and infuses thinking with knowing. And then we go based off of what we think we know, which then leads us to this pathway where we experience pain, pain, is the breaking of the shell to our understanding, the ego is humbled whenever we experienced pain, because it realizes that it's thought it no but it had no idea. And it constantly tries to choose based off of what it thinks it knows and then becomes the inevitable conclusion that it does not know. And so it goes to the source of True Knowingness, we move from my head down to our heart, and then we make that connection. You know, and through the experience, through moving down there and having life recontextualize from that frequency of love. Through that experience we gained through knowingness, I see all of these formulas and codes like everywhere like this, everything is so, so ordered, so divinely ordered, you know, all you have to do is just see it, see it. And the physical is a manifestation of spiritual truths. And so you see in the physical, what God is revealing to us about the spirit, the mind does not like to be present. That's why he spent a lot of time talking about the present moment, being mindful and being in the present moment is because the mind is always in the past, or in the future. There's no power there. You know, like the saying goes, the past is history, the future mystery in today's I give, which is why it's called the present, you got to utilize the gift that you have, which is this present moment, all of your power exists. Yeah. You know, you know, or just observed mind blowing beauty. Because everything is so beautiful, when you're still enough to see it. Like for eggs. In truth, you know, and when you can see the essence of things, I
Madison Daniels 22:53
make that connection that you were talking about a lot through meditation, where is it is like, if you take the time to get alone with your thoughts to get alone with you know, what you need to dissect so much is revealed to you during that time. Whether it be sometimes it may just be something you're really anxious about you keep having an anxious thought while you're meditating, then you're able to say, Why am I having this and then you realize that you're having this because of something else. And then you can delve into those deep things. Sometimes, I really cool ideas that come to me during meditation where it's almost like, I get this creative energy. It's really cool to connect everything to different practices that I have.
Harry Turner 23:32
Yes. And it's good to have those practical things, because oftentimes, my listeners don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but they know that they've been talking about something it's nothing good, you know, in So what'd you just say, reminded me of something I say often again, it's, you know, we pull something from that we're making something from nothing, but it doesn't come from nowhere. You know, but you were you were talking about that place. That meeting ground, you know, and that's where that's, that's where that's created that and that space, you know,
Madison Daniels 24:06
absolutely. Man, this is . . . ,
Harry Turner 24:09
I'm gonna sip my tea. All right. Can you discuss the practical ways in which faith influenced your daily practices or mindset shifts and dealing with addiction and mental health? Which you've again, all of this is gonna overlap, but please,
Madison Daniels 24:24
I wouldn't say yeah, two big things is patience and anger. So before I went on this journey, I was a very impatient very angry person. You did not want to come across me in traffic, or like I was waiting too long to get a bagel with a Panera. God had to slowly reveal that to me, because I always thought I was a good person because like, I don't know like I mostly unkind people. Every once in a while we give a homeless person $1 like all these things that we decide, we're like, Oh, if we do this, and we're like, mostly a good person, but God had to slowly reveal to me during this recovery journey that While I might be having the attention of being a good person, I might have a lot of habits and a lot of tendencies that don't allow me to show up as that person and patience and anger. But I had to reveal that to me slowly, because if I started this recovery journey, and God was like, Cool, get about 712 of them go, I would have been like, it's too much, I'm just going to actually go back and drink like, that sounds easier than this. And so, through this journey, God starts to slowly uncover like, Hey, you're really impatient. And when you're really impatient, you become really angry, you take things out on people that it's not their problem, you give somebody the middle finger in traffic, because you're running late, because you over scheduled yourself when you make your own schedule. And you could choose to make different decisions. But instead, you don't. And then you get upset because somebody isn't going 15 miles over the speed limit. And that's how fast you need to go to get to the next place, you already have no idea that you're living in chaos mode. But I realized those things that I thought were small and mundane, were actually the habits that were defining my life. And so those habits, those instant reactions, those mood changes, that's what was directing my life and not in a good way. And God showed me I had to get control of that impatience. And in order to do that, I had to make some habit changes. And then I also had to get control of the amount of anger that I had towards myself towards other people towards situations that I thought were unfair towards it, past versions of me that maybe things didn't turn out how I thought they were, and I had anger or resentment towards that. And it's like, one little thing will be revealed that, okay, got that, like, learned that lesson, and then something else will be revealed. And at first, it was discouraging, until I realized, this is a lifelong practice, if my goal is to be a good person, treat people well to be Christ, like all these things that are now completely new habits and routines that I want to create for myself, it's going to take some time, and it's not gonna happen overnight. And it's something I'm probably gonna have to work on my entire life. Because I see, you know, my 84 year old grandma, you know, still getting irritated and traffic or different things like that. And I'm like, Okay, how do I make it? So I'm not still irritated about the same things I'm irritated about now. 50 years from now, what does she do? How does she act? What is her day? Like? How does she respond if something irritating happens, because things irritating will happen. And it's all about how you respond to them. So really, it was just the process of God revealing and call them character defects. Whenever you're coming out of recovery, you start to realize all these things that you were doing all these habits that you had bought reveals these habits or these defects to you. And then from there, you're able to start trying to make amends, start trying to make changes and different things like that. So I would say honestly, a lot of its personality driven,
Harry Turner 27:45
personality driven and the personalities, the Eagles interface, with the world face between you in the world. And so when we talk about personality, we essentially are creating a new personality, you see, because personhood itself, can change person who had been the identification that we adopt, and say, This is me. And so essentially, you know, what you were saying, from my perspective, this is what I say not self, you know, what God was revealing to you is not who you were, but who you were not. Because an ISness, nothing exists without its opposite. And so then God begins to reveal who you are not, which is, then you're being introduced to your actual truth. And then that truth makes you free. You know, and then you can love yourself, and you can let go of these judgments that you have for yourself, because that's not even who you are. So essentially, the training becomes that of knowing the difference between the spirit which operates from love, and the ego, which is super energized by fear. And it's a choice in every single moment, which one we're gonna choose to serve.
Harry Turner 28:49
Ego or spirit, you know,
Harry Turner 28:51
but ego has its function in everyday life driving and stuff like that, you know, but then when we talk about, like, for example, impatience or frustration, I know that myself that had been a most certainly had been some of the emotions that my ego was prone to adopt or operate from. And a lot of that came from my own insight, I realized that a lot of that came from me taking on more than what I needed to take on. You know, if you notice with the elderly, they move a lot slower. It's not just because you know, their body may be hurting them or whatnot. But they move slower because they have less than a plate, they realize that you know, only need to have on the plates of what's absolutely necessary, which is always true from day one. It's just that we usually don't realize it until we get older. So when we're younger, we spent all about health trying to get wealth and when we get older, we spend all about wealth, trying to get back our health because we remain imbalance.
Madison Daniels 29:41
Because we spend, you know, do all these things and most work ourselves to the bone by the time we're 3040 years old, and then we get to be 75 And we're like, how come I'm not relaxing and enjoying retirement and it's like you've never adopted those lifestyle changes those habits, those things you do have to have that like you wanted. Mm.
Harry Turner 30:01
In ultimately, the life that we want also has to be in alignment with our truth. And so a lot of us have been wanting things that are not in alignment with our truth. There's a reason why historically, the highest rates of suicide have existed among those who were Caucasian and a fluent, Caucasian affluent males, you know, so in America, that's top of the food chain, but yet the highest rates of suicide ology, and I believe it's because happiness is not a destination to be reached, by the way that we travel, the eagle will tell us that if you do this, or get this or be this or have this many friends or have this many properties, that I'll be happy, then if then it's conditional, and attachment to outcome, but it can happen, it's not a destination to be reached. But the way we travel, we have to do that which creates the experience of happiness, which means that you have to connect with your heart, you have to move from your head down to your heart. That's why even the money game itself and become an influencer, you gotta be careful about what you wish for, because money only makes you more of what you already asked, if you were unhappy, when you were broke, you're gonna be even more unhappy whenever you're wealthy. You know, it's an inner problem, we don't see things as they are. But as we are nothing external can solve an internal problem, no matter what the ego tells us. At some point, we realize that and then we make that journey, which is the longest journey any of us will ever make is from the head down to the heart, we gotta go down to that heart space. Again, it says, you know, in my own faith, it says, you know, trust in God with all thy heart, and lean not to thine own understanding, understanding. So that's head, because the head, the mind, this mind, it stands under the truth, all of us stand under the truth. That's the baseline, there's a difference when standing under the truth and standing in and knowing the truth. When you begin to stand in and knowing the truth, you operate from a different level of consciousness and awareness. And that's when, like, my sister was saying, these options, these other options that you didn't know that were available, all of a sudden, now you see them, you're right, you could not see them from that, that, that level of consciousness, because at that level of consciousness, you're more reliant on what it is that you can do, what you can make for yourself with the ego can do until you realize that you can't get it done. You know, when you talk about character defects, that's a form of humility. So when the ego is humble, then our spirit can be raised up. And when that Spirit begins to operate more, we become less and the spirit becomes more, we operate from a more empowered place, we must become less so that love can become more. But I love what you're saying, because it's connecting with those, like you're inspiring those things. You know, and I love when guests come on, and they can speak to that truth in a way that's digestible. I don't know where it comes from, what century it came from, or whatnot. But this has been me from pretty much out the womb. So I was just designed to talk this way, my challenge has been to make it practical. You know, as a therapist, I'm a psychotherapist transitioning out of that nine. But as a psychotherapist, I've relied mainly, I've studied so many manuals, because that has practical information. But then I combined what I know, like the insights I give me with that practical information so that my clients can make that connection. Because ultimately, therapy stops at ego strengthening. So you're confident. But if you really want to be free, you don't have to transcend the ego. Wow. You know, that's a spiritual act, you know?
Harry Turner 33:29
Alright.
Harry Turner 33:30
So Were there moments, any moments where your faith was tested during your recovery? And how did you navigate those challenges to maintain your path towards living in truth?
Madison Daniels 33:40
I love this question. There were so many times my faith was tested. And a lot of it I now realize is because I had unrealistic expectations. I thought I would commit to going to AAA say, Hey, God, I mean, this time, let's do our thing. And then I would wake up the next day, and I would never want to drink again. And life would be great and dandy. And I had this very unrealistic expectation it was to where I treated God like he was a genie in the bottle. And then I eventually realized that I had a very incorrect perception as well as expectation on God, that I was out living in addiction for 1012 years. And then I've been in AAA for three months, and I think my life should be perfect. I'm confused why it's not and hurt a lot of people now that I've been in a for a little while they say one year and one year out. So if you were living in addiction for 1012 years, don't be in a for three months and then expect your life to be better than it was you know, prior to addiction because that's not an a realistic expectation. It took you a long time to get your life to be to the point that it was so unmanageable that you ended up in AAA, and it's gonna take you a long time to get your life to where it is manageable. And fortunately for me, it took me a long time to realize this because if I hadn't realized how much work was going to go into recovery yet, at the beginning, I don't know if I would have done it. Because again, I had these unrealistic expectations. But then once I am, you know, going through the motions of recovery, I'm like, Well, I'm too far to stop now. So you know, I'm not gonna give up now. And you know, that is really what kept me going was just like, okay, things may not be perfect, but they're better than they were when I was in addiction. So I'm just going to keep doing this. And it has to just keep getting better. I remember I had about six months, I wake up one morning, and I'm just triggered to drink. Do you want to know why? Because it's sunny out. That is why I wanted to drink because the old me if it was sunny out, I would find an excuse to go drinking, I would find a pool to go to a lake to go to now that I'm sober, it's sunny out. And I'm like, I don't know we do besides get drunk outside. So because I don't know what to do. I want to go out and drink because that's what old me would have done. There's the habits that I built in my 20s. And so now because I'm 31, and I have no idea what new habits are what people do, and it's sunshiny out. Besides drink, I have to build new habits. And I have to choose to say, Okay, this is going to be difficult, but it's going to be better than what I was doing for. So
Harry Turner 36:11
yeah, you have to be baptized by fire planes fly against the wind, not with it, you know, and so is these moments where you gotta grow the muscles. But again, repetition scientifically, the mind only acknowledges what's real, is what we repeatedly do. And so what you repeatedly do, or would you do, religiously, causes certain neurons to fire, new neural pathways are formed. And neurons that fire together, wire together. So now as you're doing what you're doing religiously, which reflects your belief system, based off of these new beliefs, new neural pathways are being created, you're moving from the undisciplined stage that you were in to a certain discipline set. Bruce Lee said, the three stages of self mastery, again, are the natural, the natural, undisciplined Stage One was a fighter swings wildly, does what's natural, but it's undisciplined to stage two is the unnatural discipline, what now you're doing what's unnatural to you, but it's a discipline that you're forming. And this is the longest stage because you gotta go from white belt, yellow belt, green belt, you gotta go through all these belts. And by the time you get to that black belt, you've done that same thing, 1000s of times, again, neurons that fire together, wire together. And so what you've done religiously now, the body does what it's meant to do, which is adapt to what it is that you're choosing to do. And now you've the body has helped you master that activity, based off of the mind and body being in unison from you doing the same thing religiously. those neural pathways are so well formed, that they become the path of least resistance. So no, now there's no longer this fight, to do what is healthy for you. It's just natural, because you've repeatedly done that for so long. Again, intentionality reflects relationship and the more intentional you are about doing the thing, the stronger the relationship becomes. So until that new neural pathway is formed until it becomes a path of least resistance, you have to engage in intentionality, constantly, like more intentionality during these times, you won't do it perfect. But anything we're doing is we're doing poorly knowing that you're gonna gain skills as you go on, because that's just the way it is. Michael Jordan wasn't Michael Jordan, as long as you touch a basketball, you had to flunk out a few times, he had to hit some roadblocks. He had to overcome some things, he had to grow through some things. And that's why they call it a growing pains. Now growing pleasures, most of your growth can be grown in planes. And we always want to be growing. So that's why you have to remain in that state of humility, realizing that you're gonna make mistakes, because anything not growing is dead. And most of the growth that you experienced growing pains and growing pleasures, you got to be humble enough to accept that only the wise can accept rebuke.
Madison Daniels 38:51
And you literally just proved that if you're trying to develop a habit, and you just keep doing it. Even if you don't want to, you'll eventually develop that habit.
Harry Turner 39:02
Welcome, welcome to Nocturnals world.
Madison Daniels 39:06
No, I love just all the connections you've been able to make of like, here's what I'm doing. And you're like, yes, here's what's actually happening in your brain. I'm like, oh, fascinating.
Harry Turner 39:17
Because that spiritual, that may sound a wise brother have a person perceives me. I know that also there's a strong logic has to be a logic there for me to make the connection. So that's how I begin to make the connections between the physical and the spiritual. Because I'm looking at the physical and certain laws, like the great sages and avatars. They spoke of certain things. So Jesus, in the Bible, it talks about you reap what you sow. But in Buddhism, they call that karma. Sir Isaac Newton says, For every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It's the same laws. And when you see that law existing and different spaces, no matter who's looking at it, you know, that's a universal law because no matter where you stand out, when we dig deep enough, we all reach the same center. So when you see that This exists everywhere we talk about a law that is omnipresent.
Harry Turner 40:03
Yeah. God is omnipresent. Hmm. So,
Harry Turner 40:09
again, this is another episode of season four is that so faith in healing with Madison Daniels on overcoming addiction and finding truth, this season is about living in truth. Because as I said, as you live in truth, your awareness begins to expand. This year, it's about the lid effect, elevating perspectives from eye level, the sky level, from the snapshot view of things to the panoramic view of reality, as Rumi said, we think that we are one drop in the ocean when in reality, in truth, we are the entire ocean in one drop. When you begin to see yourself as the all expansive energy connective tissue. When you see yourself as that all encompassing energy, you're moving essentially, from eye level to Sky level, you're moving from that snapshot view to the panoramic view. So this season about living in truth, don't know my mission is to assist others in developing the audacity to live unapologetically authentic, and a life of authenticity is a life skill for the practicing them into your values. Y'all know that? But how do you really live authentically, if you're out of alignment with truth, we're making choices. But the choices that we're making many of us are still out of alignment with our truth, we think that we're making these choices, but these choices are already being made for us based off of our level of awareness. As you begin to heal, what happens is you become whole or you become more empowered, and we know that hill, hole and holy, all come from the same source. So your righteous path is to heal. This healing journey is a spiritual journey. And as you continue to heal, you'll gain more awareness, you'll gain your awareness will expand. And you'll see yourself more accurately, again, really revealing the true essence of things because there's a difference between appearance and essence, the ego sees appearance, which is why we can be fooled by other people's appearances. But the spirits is essence you can't fool essence.
Harry Turner 42:13
And it gave me a moment to spiel. Okay,
Harry Turner 42:16
so for someone currently struggling, struggling with addiction, and seeking healing, what advice would you offer about leveraging faith as a tool for
Harry Turner 42:25
recovering?
Madison Daniels 42:26
I would say that, if you would have tried everything, have you given faith a try? Because I was at the point that I was like, I've tried everything seen 17 therapists all of which I lied to about my addiction, because I didn't want to, you know, kind of confront that or come to terms with that. I had tried every anti anxiety pill under the sun, I hid it, you know, done all these things that I thought were what you're supposed to do to heal. And then it wasn't until that night that I was in AAA, and that I realized that all these people actually aren't healing, have healed are continuing to heal. And they have faith that. And so at that point, I am starting AAA on a Wednesday night. I'll try anything even faith that that was kind of the time for me. And so my advice is, if you're like, I've tried everything, like have you tried faith? Because if you haven't, maybe that's the thing that you're missing. I don't mean faith isn't like, oh, yeah, I pray, but have you ever tried going all in on your faith? Because for me, I tried everything I did everything that you know, the world says, you have anxiety and depression, do these things. And then I finally get into a is ultimately a spiritual program, not a religious one, I finally get into a spiritual program, I finally find faith. That's when my life finally started to come together and finally started to make sense. So if you're at a point where you're like, I don't know, I've tried everything. I've done it all good faith to try and give it a try sincerely, and watch how your life actually really will change.
Harry Turner 44:05
So how does one try faith because you know, I can go to the store and get two boxes of cereal, but I can't exactly go to the store and get to boxes. What
Harry Turner 44:16
is faith? I
Madison Daniels 44:17
would say faith is believing in something more than yourself believing in something bigger than you. So believing that there is a higher power out there that loves you and wants to help you. I would say that's like we were talking earlier about acceptance. Like if you want to try faith, you have to first agree that maybe there's something out there and that was the first step for me is like okay, maybe there's something out there that I can connect with that actually is looking out for me that is guiding my steps that does have a plan for my life that isn't me living in addiction. And once I started to kind of be like okay, literally whenever I started praying I prayed exactly like I did just a few minutes ago. Hey god, it's me like that was literally How I started and I would say try to talk to your higher power, kind of like it's a friend when you're starting. I think a lot of times people are like, okay, yeah, I want to connect with my higher power, but like, how do I start with like, hold my hands and close my eyes and say, like, ye holy God, like, you don't have to do any of that, you could literally just be driving down the road and just think, or say out loud, hey, I want to have a relationship, or I want to have a connection to higher power. I believe that you exist, I want to start letting you guide my life. And then from there, I what I personally started doing is I started incorporating, praying. And so what I would do is I would pray for, you know, whatever things I had going on just for that day. So I would pray like, hey, you know, please keep me sober today. Please help me with XYZ that I have going on, please bless this person. And you know, it slowly started to evolve from there. But my common thread has always been, I still talk to God, like he's a friend. The other day I was getting in the car spilled my whole smoothie. Now I'm like, great, I am not going to be energized for my workout, I have to literally stop and be like, Hey, God, I'm really pissed off about this smoothie. So can you like check my attitude real quick. And just let me get out of this. Like, that is how simple it can be. And sure enough, like five minutes later, I was like, all can't like almost had a meltdown over smoothie. So I think a lot of it is just finding small ways to start incorporating it that feel good for you. And for me, a lot of times at the beginning that was praying in my mind in the car, so not saying anything out loud, just doing what would be like my version of prayer in my mind, then eventually, I was like, I'm driving by myself, I can talk out loud, right? Nobody knows I'm pregnant or singing along, nobody cares. And so then it slowly started to evolve for me too. Okay, now I pray out loud in my car, still kind of like my sacred space. But I would say really just starts with like, okay, exploring that, first of all, like accepting, exploring, and then starting to have that connection and whatever way you feel most comfortable.
Harry Turner 47:02
Right now I'm focusing on transforming a part of my space that I've neglected, which is finances. And so you know, he says, Do not conform to the patterns of this world will be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So it happens at that mentor, level in faith allows you to get that job. And so what is faith? Again, it's the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things unseen, is not belief, what in what you do see, but faith is the acceptance of the unseen, you accept that that new choice that you make, will create new consequences, because life doesn't give you what you want, but who you are. And so what you see now in the present, is based off of past choices that you make, the physical was always the last part to catch up to the new choices that you make. If I decide to work out today, I know that I'm not going to have a six pack today. But I know that I'm a six pack person today did I decide that I wanted a six pack, even though it may not show up in the physical as of yet because I begin to do religiously, what a person who has a six pack does, that's where you connecting mind and body. When you combine thought, word and deed, those are the energies that are needed to connect, in order for you to truly manifest for you to make new choices. You know, so again, life doesn't give you what you want, but who you are conformed, Be transformed by the renewing of your mind don't conform to those old patterns, because that's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. But the mind can do it and of itself, the mind will always make the same old choices, again and again, which is why this radical acceptance, this letting go with the resistance to the present moment, they're letting go of your own judgments, because you don't know what it is that you're even looking at. And that's what another reason why faith is so important too, is because you've got to have faith that even though you see this in the physical, because this mind operates off of cause and effect that you've been told that you can be the cause that then creates the effect that's different. The mind is based off cause and effect, it's dependent on the external environment, we need things from the external environment to survive from a physical standpoint, but you have to be the cause that then creates the effect, which means that you have to go inside, you have to connect with that heart, and you have to gain that insight, and then operate from that space. And you have to have faith when you operate from that space. Because your mind is going to tell you that don't make any logical sense. Oftentimes, when you're making these jumps and transcending levels of consciousness, it's very non logical, a lot of the insights that you have, and it's in that space where it just doesn't make any sense that you have to utilize your faith. And that faith will see you through and then you back up your faith with intentionality because intentionality reflects relationship. And so if I have faith, but I don't do anything about it, that means I'm not intentional about what I say that I actually believe in which means I have no relationship with the words that are coming out of my mouth. But when you backed that up with intentionality, now you're connecting that relationship with your faith and when you connect faith with the deeds that you do, based off of the new thinking that you have, you realize that transformation happens In that space, intentionality is a matrix or the mother that gives birth to transformational change because I'm not going to be intentional about doing something I don't have faith and so I have to have faith in it to begin with, even do it. You know. So Faith is an essential part when it comes down to transcending levels of consciousness. Without it, you won't do it. Sister. All righty, one last question. From your experience, what do you believe society can learn about the interconnections between faith addiction recovery, and mental health advocacy?
Madison Daniels 50:33
Okay, so in AAA, we have what we call the big book. And so the big book is literally a like 600 Page big book that is blue that scrolled off the alcohol anonymous book. And it is written by this guy named Bill who actually founded AAA. The concept behind the book is that if there's somebody who if they're not sure, if they're an alcoholic, if they're not sure what AAA is all about, they could read this book. And this book will pretty clearly tell you if you're an alcoholic goes through all the steps in depth of what to do. And in there, it talks about whenever a first came to be, that a first started to get introduced to all of these different doctors and hospitals, because essentially, there was no cure for alcoholism. And so because there was no cure for alcoholism, prior to AAA, existing, people would get locked in psych wards, all these things would happen, they would be sent to asylums, that's kind of where they would live, because they couldn't function in society, because they didn't know how to deal with their addiction. And they didn't have the words that we have today to say that persons living in addiction, they need treatment. And so they would just walk them away. And so in the book, it talks about how the only thing that has been successful is people following a spiritual program to be able to come out of addiction, to come out of addiction and live in recovery, you have to have a spiritual program. And without that, you'll go back out and you'll be living right back in addiction, I've now been in the program long enough to see people come in and out of the program. So I've seen, hey, that person's normally at meetings, and now they've gone back out, they're drinking, they're coming back in, they're picking up another chip. And those are always the people that also are very anti getting a higher power. They are also very much the people that are like I heard about respect to have a higher power God, I don't want to do that and walk and do that in the program, I'm gonna do the other steps, I'm not gonna do that piece. There's the people that go back out. My personal not medical opinion is that you don't end up in addiction without mental illness. Everybody's in addiction, because they're trying to deal with something, they have untreated anxiety, they have untreated depression, they don't have the right medications, they don't have the right resources, they don't have the right therapy. So they drink so they do drugs, and people can't get out of addiction because they don't have the support with their mental health, ie higher power, faith, things like that, to even be able to get out of addiction. So I think that we don't run into problems with addiction unless you already don't have mental health problems, because the two are interconnected. And you can't recover really from either without having that higher power. And you know, I've just seen it kind of time and time again, that lonely in my own life, but in people that are actively on their recovery journey with me that you know, they're very anti anything to do with God. And then unit next thing, you know, they're picking up another white chip. And it's like, Come on, just give God a try. And so that is really kind of how I think that they're all interconnected is that God is the faith is the common thread that can pull you out of all of that when you try everything else.
Harry Turner 53:41
And I would encourage you to back up what you're saying, those who are still questioning exactly how to choose God. Go to your heart, go to your heart, and look at yourself. Look at what you think you are who you think you are. And then when you experienced that, those feelings of vulnerability, of unworthiness of not enoughness in that space, ask God to show up and show you who you truly are. Invite in the god experience in that space. It's in that space of true sincerity, that really prayers are answered. But you have to be sincere. And you have to have like, true faith. You know, I just I have faith in what it is that I see. You know, but we always operate on faith without whether we realize it or not, you know, I don't see my car right now but I have faith that it will drive off. So you know, we don't do anything without faith. And so regardless of how you it was presented to you know that truth and love on marrying and so when you're choosing fake actually choosing love and you're choosing your truth because the truth that you think that you know right now, that's not yours. Truth, you're running from a truth that's not even yours. But wherever you go, there you are. And that's where addiction comes in addiction from an internal family system standpoint is the firefighter part of the protective system. And so with the inner child from the wounds from the inner child, when the wounds and the feelings begin to overwhelm the system, because the system is still burdened, internally, then these firefighters kick into action, because the managers aren't able to keep the child or the exiles in the closet. So these firefighters with like cutting, addiction, suicide affairs, you know, those types of things, when you said mental illness, the place that operate from is that illness begins at the mind, not at the body. And so all of us not to get the mind a bad rep because it's the most amazing thing that was ever created for physical creatures, our minds, the prefrontal cortex, and added on and all that. But the mind sees distortion. It doesn't see correctly or accurately, it doesn't see true. It sees objective truths. But really, it just remains at an observation level when it's still making a prediction that what it observes, will not change. Change is the one constant in this universe. And sort of mind is always behind, which is why hindsight is always 2020. It's hard with seeing foresight. But if you want to see foresight, you got to gain that insight. And that comes from moving from Head to Heart. Sister, I appreciate you being on the show. How do people find you?
Madison Daniels 56:30
Thank you so much for having me. You can find me on Instagram. It's just Madison W Daniels. And I also have a podcast. It's only embarrassing if you're embarrassed podcast where I talk more really about addiction, mental health be different things like that. Thank
Harry Turner 56:47
you so much for being on the episode and on the stage for blessing a set. And I definitely want to invite you back in advance for something that I'm putting together and will remain connected, I got your contact information, we will remain connected and we're gonna have some more Live episodes, we're gonna continue to dialogue about this shared truth that we've
Madison Daniels 57:06
experienced. That sounds great. Thank you so much. I really look forward to it.
Harry Turner 57:10
Thank you, and Outliers thank you all for listening, my love and respect and stay lit as we continue another chapter of "Is That SOO?" I hope our journey today has left you with more than just thoughts but a call to live intentionally, live intentionally deeply, authentically and truthfully. The path of self discovery of Self knowledge is infinite, a labyrinth where each turn reveals more of who we are and can be. Let this conversation be a lantern in the dark guiding you back to yourself time and again. Until we meet next outlier. Continue to seek question and live in the profound truth that defines your existence. Agape and stay lit. Live In Truth
